This Thursday the 19th of October is the deadline for the receipt of ballots in the local plebiscite regarding the name change of a “Gaeltachtâ€? town in county Kerry, that town of course is An Daingean or Dingle if you like.
The question before the plebs of ‘Dingle’ is whether they would prefer their town to be officially renamed ‘Dingle Daingean Uà Chúise’ or remain as ‘An Daingean’. All this ruckus started after the 2005 Placenames Order decreed that Dingle as a Gaeltacht town should henceforth be officially referred to as An Daingean on all Acts of the Oireachtas, Statutory Declarations, Ordinance Survey Maps, Land Registry Maps and on any Local Authority road or street signposts.
As far as I can make out people were getting their knickers in a twist after Dingle was dropped fearing it would affect tourism in the Town. God forbid some poor auld Yank gets confused by Gaelic signage and spends his dollars elsewhere. Anyway, they then came up with this ridiculous bastardised version of the town name ‘Dingle Daingean Uà Chúise’. What next, ‘Ballingeary Béal Ã?tha an Ghaorthaidh’, ‘Carraroe Cheathrú Rua’, ‘Gweedore Gaoth Dobhair’, ‘Ring Rinn’ or ‘Spiddal Spidéal’?? Maybe if they stopped fumbling in their greasy tills for one second they would see how ludicrous the whole thing sounds.
These till fumblers would be better off concerning themselves with questions more pertinent to their professions, like MasterCard or Visa? Cash or Cheque? Yes Sir or No Sir? Yes Sir Mr. American Sir or Yes Sir Mr. German Sir? Sa Toin nú San Aghaidh? That kind of stuff.
Besides,
‘I Dingle Daingean Uà Chúise’ le haghaidh an tráthnóna
Bhà an sagart paróiste amach inár gcoinnibh,
…’
just doesn’t have the same ring to it!!
Connolly of Coventry – sad narrowback fool wake up to reality – British Empire is over except for throwbacks like you – clearly it is Ireland has escaped from a squireen – why don’t you just keep out of what obviously is too complex for your little brain – piss off to the local RSL club in Coventry or wherever and have a few sherries over all the great things empire has visited on the world.
Escaped – really one has to have pity for people like you – life is in one colour, one language, one channel….. ein volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer !!!!
Great stuff Mr. Connolly
Well Queen Astrid, given that the ports of Dublin, Wexford, Waterford and Limerick were all founded by the Vikings, then to be consistent, all signage should be in Old Norse! Now that *would* confuse the tourists and all those who like to peddle the myth of Ireland as a purely Gaelic nation. Yes the British Empire died before my parents stepped off the boat at Holyhead and good riddance to it (and my namesake you tried to rid you of it was a Scotsman, yes another Brit!)
It’s legacy is that we do have a multinational society and multilingual cities. How would you cope with signage in Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, Chinese (any variety), Vietnamese and Polish (who are now the new ‘Irish’ of Europe, emigrating in their droves, as their country is ruled by a similar bunch of nationalistic eejits)? Not very well I expect, eh?
Funny, I came across this site whilst researching whether Ireland would be a country worth living in. You’ll be relieved to hear that here’s one ‘blow in’ you won’t be blowing in. Pissed off as I am with His Toniness’ sycophancy to the United Shites of Arrogance, I shan’t be taking the mercenary step of getting an Irish Passport. Besides I might have to declare support for IRA Inc (HQ Boston USA) if I do.
According to the media England may be struggling with ‘multiculturalism’, but Ireland is *way* behind. When you Gaelic language fascists have erased all trace of English, Scots, Scandanavian and Norman influence from your island, then you can be proud in your nation of in-bred sheep-shaggers, whose greatest contribution to global culture is the spread of plastic paddy theme pubs. Ireland sucks, keep your dolphins, your overpriced tourist industry, your pisspoor public transport and your clueless environmental planning.
As for the ‘RSL Club’. Sorry hen, but there are far more Irish social clubs here in Coventry – a legacy of emigration / immigration YOU don’t understand. Irish people here have however learned to integrate with other nationalities, which you never will. As for the fascist references, keep your Blueshirt and jackboots. Oh and de Valera was one of Hitler’s greatest allies. Ein Volk Irländisch – jawohl!
hmmmmm! i am not alone.
has anyone else noticed that all the gaeilge-uber-alles commenters (mise fein, the admin, naoiscaire, julien, the queen etc, etc) could well have been written by the very same person?
same (lack of) humour, tone, emphatic punctuation, etc, etc. were you all in the same class at the gaelscoil or is it the same person?
- fearbealfeirste
Your last 3 posts were again caught by the spam filter. The spam filter I use is SK2 and it’s served me perfectly up until now. I get a langer-load of spam comments every day but every so often it catches genuine comments. It’s true that your comments went straight up initially; something must have changed in the mean time that irritated the filter, change of location etc.
Anyway, ill see what I can do as to dulling SK2’s fangs, but for now expect a delay in you posts going live, sorry.
Now to the debate at hand and the direction it seems to have taken. I don’t have the energy to re-engage right now, it is Sunday evening after all, but will do later (Connolly of Coventry I’ve my eye on you!)
Fear Bheal Feirste nil aon deireadh leat. Biodh agat nil suim agam nios mo bheith ag sugradh le duine chomh dur agus chomh cung-aigeanta leat – nil aon tabhacht na luach le do thuairimiocht mar is leir o do chuid bladair gan dealraimh – ni bheidh a thuilleadh le clos uaimse anseo ni fiu an dua tu.
Slan agus go bhfaighe tu faoiseamh la eigin go luath on ghrain ata ionat duit fein.
By the way, you really should work on your English a little more and most importantly on what you seem to as your ‘humour’ – you’re just not funny – and so do those of us who are able to read what you write a favour and don’t try and cover up your hate by claiming later that it was a humour others didn’t understand – arrogant and presumptious – boooooo!
So go ahead – the stage is yours – knock yourself out!
Dear Poor Spoilt Brat in Coventry,
The really sad side of the ‘legacy of emigration’ is…. well, it’s YOU!
Remember, it was you who posted ‘…you can be proud in your nation of in-bred sheep-shaggers, whose greatest contribution to global culture is the spread of plastic paddy theme pubs. Ireland sucks, keep your dolphins, your overpriced tourist industry, your pisspoor public transport and your clueless environmental planning…etc. ad naseum!’
Take down the book on Irish history you forgot to read all those years ago, read up on the landgrabbing legacy of the British Empire, on your hero Oliver Cromwell, on the Landlords, the Black and Tans and the Anglo-Irish War with all the attrocities on all sides, the Black and Tans – there’s a long list but you’ll have to read about it yourself, learn the truth about the country you’re running down so stupidly. Maybe get to see some films like the ‘The Wind That Shakes The Barley’ Dir. K. Loach.
When you’ve done all of the above… only then would it be reasonable for you to consider moving to Ireland or applying for an Irish passport (can’t see your arrogance allowing you to do this) and if your rant above is anything to go by you’re something we could do without and that’s for sure!! Plenty of other places you could go with your friends like Iraq or Afghanistan.
Maybe the good and democratic burgers of Dingle / Daingean Ui Chuis could invite you to open an English speaking only supermarket there … or something.
Goodnight Coventry
i know my gaeilge is poor but if i’m not mistaken your saying in one para (as gaeilge) that your done listening to my ranting but then you go on (i mbearla) in another para to invite my retort?
anyways, retort i will.
i do not hate you, gaeilge, anyone or anything (except onions) – the fainne oir brigade introduced the hate word as a means to rebuke my argument and label me as some kind of an angry, hate filled, nutter – instead of just answering my point.
i did not mean to imply (as im sure i didn’t) that my words themselves were in any way funny, because that would be arrogant and presumptious, just that some people might find the huge overreaction of some people and the general direction of the debate as mildy humorous.
i know my english is not good – i believe it was me who pointed that out – and my irish is worse but what does that have to with anything. it does illustrate that you’re clutching at straws to prove your better than me – but i won’t be drawn into a personal slanging match.
as someone (much more intelligent than me) once said:
never argue with a fool – some people won’t know the difference.
btw – the Admin – apology accepted and i will give you the benefit of the doubt (am i allowed to do that? will i be called arrogant again?). please accept my apology for jumping to (paranoid) conclusions and going off a little bit – no offence intended.
wow – as good as your word – go raibh maith agat!
now i’m sure (very sure) i didn’t bring all this bitterness into the debate and i think people need to back of a bit – from what i can see we are all doing the work of the people we most despise. god forbid i should help the sinners gain more of a stranglehold on our culture and language.
i appreciate that some of you really love the language but you cant just obliterate everyone who doesn’t share your exact viewpoint – it is a bit crazy (maybe fascisty) and it’s certainly not the irish way (i mean the real irish way not the violent fascist killing way).
lets bring a bit of sense back to the debate – it’s gone a bit childish really.
I guess I don’t have any Irish ancestors in me apart from a great granfather of my mother’s side but hey big deal. I’ve been in Ireland on holiday a number of times and I think your country and people are great (especially the West).
Wow I stumbled onto this blog and I couldn’t resist making a quick comment.
It’s to you Mr. fearbealfeiriste (?), you seem to be attacking those other guys constantly but you yourself have only said one thing all along and that has more to do with long gone politics, I think, than what these other guys are trying to say to you.
I really hope you’re not wasting an employers time and money answering your longwinded blurbs which haven’t really added to the An Daingean debate from the very beginning – chill out man, I think those guys who stand up for their language are cool – Gaelic Rocks!!
Ruth
ruth – thank you for your comment. im glad you sorted that out for us, we really needed your input after all, just like we needed your dollars to destroy our own country and people. please come back and force your opinion on us again, we do love it.
never mind the fact that all those greenshirts were wrong and were trying to force their opinion on the people of dingle, who, incidentally, voted to have their name back in case you didn’t know that. but bo$£ocks to democracy, invade dingle and blow it to sh1t£ and force a regime change -they’re obviously not able to govern themselves.
- FBF
Ill thank you not to attack or belittle contributors to this blog, it is neither your place nor your privilege to do so. Its one thing for you and I and the others who have partaken in the parry and joust up until now to berate each other, but its another thing entirely to have a pop at a new contributor straight off the bat, especially when the tone of her post was less than confrontational or offensive. I do require a modicum of respect to be shown to myself as admin and to anyone who takes time to contribute to this blog.
Having said all that, I, as much as the next man, enjoy a good discussion. The debate at hand seemed to spiral out of control and was a bit heated at times, that’s grand; it is a rather emotive subject after all. Now, I learnt a long time ago that arguing with people on the Internet, while it can be fun, is about as futile an activity one can partake in. I also learnt not to take these little exchanges too seriously, but I have to assume that not all people who visit this blog have seen the light as I have! So! A little respect to noobs and no unprovoked personal attacks is all I ask.
- Unmontóndemierda
Calling me a bigot for my use of the phrase “till fumblers” shows your distinct lack of knowledge as far as the discussion, the context of the phrase, and the word itself, is concerned. Believe you me the motivation behind this was entirely monetary and driven by the business community of the town. Ireland is a nation of till-fumblers with Dingle being the microcosm to the macrocosm.
Your assertion that because a supposed “majority” or people in the supposed town of “Dingle” voted for a “supposed” resolution means it must be so just doesn’t hold water. I held a plebiscite here in the office before lunch and the results were overwhelmingly in favour of us getting this Friday off. This doesn’t mean its going to happen. I mean there are only 3 of us in the office, in a company of over a hundred, but we really REALLY want the day off and all 3 of us voted for it! Get a grip, changing the name to the bilingual version has no basis in law here in Ireland. The whole thing was a waste of time oh and of money!
a personal attack it was indeed but methinks it was asked for – if your gonna throw in your ha’pence worth then you gotta expect to take whats coming, i mean we are all adults after all (i think).
but if you insist then i do apologise and i hope ruth gets over her verbal (uncalled for?)assault. i mean her (or anyone else) no physical harm (or any other class of harm for that matter). maybe just a stubbed toe for naoscaire, mise fhein and your good self.
onwards…
how can you agree with government policy on one hand when it suits your point of view – gaeltacht road signs mar shampla – but then disagree when you dont like the decision – shell to sea.
i mean i know sometimes they’re right and sometimes they’re wrong but campaigning for one government policy while at the same time protesting against another is a bit much is it not, kind of having your cake and eating it.
Admin,
Your plebiscite was an excellent idea.
I really think you NEED this Friday off, and my further respectful advice would be that you spend it lying down in a darkened room for a few hours.
If you are a man of principle, and I think you are, you will go ahead and take Friday off, irrespective of the opinions of the remainder of your esteemed company. The wishes of the majority should not be allowed to get in your way.
One other small point from your most excellent diatribe : I realise that English is perhaps not your first language, but I think you will find that the word “monitory” does not actually exist.
- Unmontóndemierda
Many thanks. Who needs a spell-check plug-in with the likes of you around? Oh and you were correct in presuming that English was not my first language, well spotted. What was your first hint?
- FBF
We may all be adults but I don’t want potential contributors to be discouraged before they even start. Anyway, look that to one side…
As for your concern regarding my apparent double standards where government policy is concerned; things are never that black and white. You can call it having my cake and eating it too if you like, but just because I disagree with Government policy in respect the current situation in Mayo (Cake) doesn’t mean I should reject out of hand any policy that I see as being positive for the Irish language (eaten). Why should I?
Anxious as I am to get involved there are simply too many rantings above to catch up with. Perhaps I could set each of you contributors, including you Mr Admin, with your iron fist, to summarise your positions in 100 words or less, give or take. Kind of like the Leaving Cert English/Irish exams, don’t jump down my throat for that one now Fundamentalists.
And I do wonder why certain parties are so passionate about getting rid of our native tongue, or if not getting rid of sitting back and allowing it to fade into obscurity because it is easier to have English, and that’s all it is, easier, other nations who have retained their own languages get by fine, tourists and locals alike, it’s not supposed to be like McDonalds where you wander into a comfortable familiar environment ever time you enter a new country you know? Anyways now you know where I stand, so have at it.
Iron Fist!! More like Yielding paw.
ok johnny – i will try and give it you quickly, kind of like in hamburger form!
i personally think that our native language (or what was our native language, because realistically 98% of the people hear speak a different, less sexy, language on a daily basis, so really that must be our native language if we all tell the truth) should be left alone to either flourish or, alternatively, not to flourish.
artificially resuscitating it before it has stopped breathing is atually damaging it and may even kill it off.
furthermore, forcing our children to revert back to an old, not widely spoken by any stretch, language and thereby putting them at a disadvantage in a global economic sense is not fair and a little non-progressive. it will kind of leave them at a disadvantage – and i have witnessed this already at first hand.
now you might say that we could all be bi-lingual but that’s just kidding yourself because given the choice we all know which language will win (has won?) for purely practical reasons.
now i’m just skimming the surface cos i only have 5 minutes and i’m sure i could put a better argument over a pint or two when i’m not trying to do 4 things at once but generally that’s the gist of it.
Resuscitation generally happens when an accident or injury has caused something to begin to die and in that case resuscitation is entirely justified, in fact it would be negligent of the individual or individuals with the ability to resuscitate were they not to bring about the continuation of the life of the injured.
There are historical factors, where the Irish language was quashed, and which has caused our language to begin to die, that is merely a statement of fact.
In this instance the people with the ability to stop the death of our language are those who can still speak it and feel it and understand it’s true beauty, and in that understanding allow others to experience it also.
I believe that it is only in the recent past that we have become aware that the language is really in danger of extinction, the most of us were happy enough to leave the older generation shepherd it along up until now while we let MTV dictate our dialogue, but as we grow a little older, and the older generation begins to shuffle off to other unworldly places good and bad, and our culture becomes more multi cultural and multi racial (this is a good thing also) we begin to see the virtues in keeping all aspects of our own culture alive, the language that the Irish people speak and have spoken for hundreds of years is what spawned the way we sing our traditional songs, the stories we tell, the expressions and accents we use, even in this adopted, though not by choice, language, in fact it created the people we are.
If keeping that language alive is what these people are trying to do then I don’t see why others, including some misguided and arrogant academics should have a problem with it.
I DID NOT go to school with these riff raff;
How dare you!
Apologise at once I I will take you to task
Joowien Sidebotwom, pweez wefain fom using my catchfwaze or I will sue you..
I’ll sue you in Beguum too
johnny –
you completely and altogether miss the point (or maybe avoid it). it would in fact be inappropriate to administer cpr to someone who’s heart is still beating or to give the kiss of life to someone while they try to breath for themselves.
here in belfast we have crazy pretend gaeltachts and gaelscoileanna where most of the teachers have little (little = none whatsoever) or no grasp of the true language and the children return home to households where neither parent speaks a word of gaeilge.
these same people then castigate everyone else given any opportunity and speak loudly in excruiatingly bad half-gaeilge, as if to show how much better an irish person they are, not caring a jot how much it puts everyone else off – in fact i think maybe that’s why they do it – they like the exclusivity of it – kind of liguistic chaviness.
to finish last post/point…
if the belfast/northern language savers were really serious about actually helping the language (rather than political showboating) they might endeavour to find a way to integrate with the existing, real, gaeltachts and provide some employment opportunities for actual real native speakers instead of their current jobs for the gasurai/cailini set-up.
trying to exponentially grow gaeltacht areas in order that they include your own area will never work in the long term. what limited resources are available should be focused where they are needed not spread thinly around for a quick impact and temporary political gain.
- FBF
“furthermore, forcing our children to revert back to an old, not widely spoken by any stretch, language and thereby putting them at a disadvantage in a global economic sense is not fair and a little non-progressive. it will kind of leave them at a disadvantage – and i have witnessed this already at first hand.”
Are you sure you’re not from the early nineteen hundreds? Your above statement rings or that era. You may be more deluded than I first thought and probably too far gone for anything I say to make any jot of a difference to your outlook.
“now you might say that we could all be bi-lingual but that’s just kidding yourself because given the choice we all know which language will win (has won?) for purely practical reasons.”
You have truly shown yourself up in this statement. Try taking a world view, bilingualism is the norm not monolingualism (if that’s a word!). It’s not for me to spell out the advantages of bilingualism to you, I’m sure you can guess.
Your bold statement about English (I presume you were talking about English) having conquered all, is simplistic at best. You can be sure that some fool, maybe even someone as equally deluded and impetuous as yourself, made the same statement but about Latin, French or German etc at different times down through history.
i was just going to walk (surf) away but thats just not me. i have no idea why that para rings of the 19th century but if you say so then it must!
are you sure bi-lingualism is the norm? i think you will find not. bi-lingualism exists pretty much exclusively amongst educated people and almost invariably the second language is english. like your good self, for example, because it is an economic/corporate necessity, usually because the first language isn’t so widely used to be useful. now that applies as much to humongous langauges like french and spanish, which will struggle in the future to keep up with your detested english, as it does to irish. and just cos you dont like that fact wont make it go away.
what has gone before is no predictor of the future and the nature of progression is that er.. things progress so in the distant future maybe english will die out and be replaced by spanish/french or whatever but it really doesnt look like it at the minute and anyone who knows will tell you to put your stock in english or more accurately american (or international) english as the language to do your global business in. if at some point that changes then so be it but its no reason to ignore the power and reach of the language to say that it might die out some time in the very distant future.
so there – i’m done – i don’t want to argue with you or your friends anymore cos essentially were at crossed purposes – we can agree to disagree (even though we probably dont disagree fundamentally). i wont fall out with ye all though and i will come back regular cos its not a bad blog.
as a parting (weak) shot – why is it ok for you to have your blog signposts bilingual but its not ok for dingle. and why is it ok to rename mallow station in the name of tourism but again it’s not ok for dingle.
slán agus adh mór.
Admin
I think the first clue was the photo of you and your brothers at the top of the page.
Cordially yours, etc
I DID NOT go to school with livestock!
But they aww weewee atwactif!!
-FBF
zzzzZZZZZOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMmmmmmmm
You might want to read the Mallow post again.
As for the site being bi-lingual…….well that was for your benefit silly.
I’m cinq-lingual, does that make me worse than them?
Does the language of love count?
If so then I’m a raging hectophone!!!
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Why the snarky comments about Americans?
Jesus H. Christ, call your damn town any damn thing you want, we (Americans)don’t give a flying fuck.
@ Steve
Go home Yank!!
Only messing Steve…
If you mean in the comments: I was only reacting to one of your lot who had some sarky things of his own to say about the issue.
If you mean in the post: It was more a general dig. Yanks could easily be substituted for any of the other common tourist nations…Brit, German, French etc…
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