This Thursday the 19th of October is the deadline for the receipt of ballots in the local plebiscite regarding the name change of a “Gaeltachtâ€? town in county Kerry, that town of course is An Daingean or Dingle if you like.
The question before the plebs of ‘Dingle’ is whether they would prefer their town to be officially renamed ‘Dingle Daingean Uà Chúise’ or remain as ‘An Daingean’. All this ruckus started after the 2005 Placenames Order decreed that Dingle as a Gaeltacht town should henceforth be officially referred to as An Daingean on all Acts of the Oireachtas, Statutory Declarations, Ordinance Survey Maps, Land Registry Maps and on any Local Authority road or street signposts.
As far as I can make out people were getting their knickers in a twist after Dingle was dropped fearing it would affect tourism in the Town. God forbid some poor auld Yank gets confused by Gaelic signage and spends his dollars elsewhere. Anyway, they then came up with this ridiculous bastardised version of the town name ‘Dingle Daingean Uà Chúise’. What next, ‘Ballingeary Béal Ã?tha an Ghaorthaidh’, ‘Carraroe Cheathrú Rua’, ‘Gweedore Gaoth Dobhair’, ‘Ring Rinn’ or ‘Spiddal Spidéal’?? Maybe if they stopped fumbling in their greasy tills for one second they would see how ludicrous the whole thing sounds.
These till fumblers would be better off concerning themselves with questions more pertinent to their professions, like MasterCard or Visa? Cash or Cheque? Yes Sir or No Sir? Yes Sir Mr. American Sir or Yes Sir Mr. German Sir? Sa Toin nú San Aghaidh? That kind of stuff.
Besides,
‘I Dingle Daingean Uà Chúise’ le haghaidh an tráthnóna
Bhà an sagart paróiste amach inár gcoinnibh,
…’
just doesn’t have the same ring to it!!
Dingle Daingean also sounds vaguely naughty
-Fence
Well spotted. Another reason why the name change should not take place.
792736 Blog Verification…
792736…
Get straight onto bobbling Baz Mescal…
the auld triangle,
went Dingle Daingean,
does have a ring to it… but what is it worth? (till bells inside the vacum of the cranial cavity, cha ching!)
níl mórán Gaoluinn fagtha sa Daingean le na Gearmánaigh, saznech 7rl. bainn na deontaisí uatha agus féach ar na gearáin!
Far be it for an Englishman to weigh in on this, but I reckon An Daingean is just fine. We English (and more lately our American cousins) have had a long tradition of disregarding local spelling and pronunciation when discussing towns and cities; just ask Koln/Cologne or Torino/Turin for starters. It could be the best of both worlds; heritage and living tradition is celebrated while you still get to accept the money of the happily oblivious visitors to “Dingle”.
Why not use the Irish name, with the “English” name in parentheses alongside or below it. Eventually usage of the English name will cease, naturally.
The thing about the road signs is this. In all Gaeltacht areas only the Gaelic/Irish versions of places names can be used on road signs and up until now signs outside the Gaeltacht areas had both the English and Irish versions. You then had the case of Joe Tourist following signs for Dingle/An Daingean but as soon as he entered the Gaeltacht, Dingle would disappear off all road signs! The change last year standardised or harmonised road signs inside and outside Gaeltacht areas, making it much easier for Joe Tourist to find the place!
More idiocy from the Gaelige fascists.
Lets hope the verdict is translated into all the other european languages and the intricacies of the fascist futility is exposed again.
Let gaelic die a natural and dignified death. It is suffering a slow public and shambolic one at present.
The best way to preseve it if that is desired is to make it attractive not force it on people.
Its like getting kids to eat vegetables!
As a fairly regular winter holidaymaker in Ireland, I rather like the Irish language (which I would like to try to learn). Conversely, the changeover to Irish-only road signs means that I am likely to need my OS maps more than ever when driving around the Gaeltacht.
- Paul H
Where did you crawl out of, the 1960’s?
Maybe you didn’t get the memo but the Irish language is very much on the up and to say it is dying shows your total lack of knowledge on the issue. You must be another one of these language haters… last of the language haters now…2 for a pond…last of the language haters! The day of Peig and ‘poor us for having to read it’ is gone, it just doesn’t wash anymore.
Give up the hate man. Feel the grá and join the revolution.
This probably explains why we got lost several times while travelling in Donegal last year (using a map provided by the car rental company). But it really doesn’t take long to figure out that many places have two names, and that you should be prepared to encounter either on road signs.
And at least in the west of Ireland you can stop in the middle of the road to get your bearings, and no-one gets upset about it. Just try doing that here in Hampshire!
It might cause some confusion to begin with but take Ivan and Alyn I as proof that we should give tourists more credit.
Tourist – “An Daingean that’s Dingle right?”
Local – “Tis”
See? Easy.
The new signs should cut down on confusion in the long run as people will be looking for An Daingean from day one and not wondering where the hell Dingle disappeared to once inside the Gaeltacht!
Anyway the result of the vote should be interesting. It should be out by the end of the week or early next week. I’m going to put my head on the block and say there will be a handy majority in favour of keeping the Irish version only.
Crikey! ‘Twas great to hear that Fungie is still a fun-guy in good OLD “Dingle”.
Once Dingle – Daingean Uí Chúise gets its name straight we’ll write a song for ye’s via the Crikey Cooperative. Hugs.
Mickey O’ Crikey Coop
Crikey.Net (Ireland – Cornwall – Vienna)
Fungie is reported to have already sent in his ballot. Which camp he resides in is as yet unclear but the fact that s/he requested the Irish version of the ballot paper should give some indication.
why do we insist on going back to a singular point in time when gaeilge was our native tongue? why not go back further to a time when when we conversed by a series of grunts? dingle/daingean could be snort, cough – i personally have had enough of it – bhi me lan liofa san ur amhain ach ta me tinn leis anois – bearla is now our native tongue – if you cant accept that then you should move to the west belfast/disney gaeltacht sponsored by her majesty’s government
fearbealfeirste –
Another bitter language hater! Look it’s your own fault and no one else’s that you’re, how you put it, “sick with Irish”. Bearl might be your native tongue, it certainly isn’t mine but that’s not the point. Whether you like it or not Irish is the official language of the state and now an official language of the European Union. If it doesn’t affect you adversely, why would you be against the rejuvenation and promotion of our native language?
sounds right,looks right,
why mess with it?
the irish will allways be irish,this change will serve to confuse everyone,even the irish,dont let the p c brigade mess things up as they are doing everywhere else.
May I pass on my commiserations to all the residents of France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Norway, and alsewhere on planet earth who are clearly enduring enormous difficulty attracting tourists to their respective towns due to a ridiculous situation of their towns not having English names. Poor benighted people, but isn’t that foreigners for you? Great to see that the business community of An Daingean is seeing a commercial reality that eludes, well, well all business communities in the non-English speaking world. But what would those non-English speakers know about commerce compared to those world-class and enlightened businessmen in…Kerry?
Excuse me, but I’m American and I’m not a “till fumbler” who is “confused by Gaelic signage”. What’s your problem with me being in your country? You guys need teachers, and I answered the call. I am taking a course in Gaelic, and I try to get along as best I can in Ireland while remaining as inoffensive as possible. It sounds to me like you’re just a bigot who can’t get over some – what, economic? – jealousy.
Change the name I say! then it will remain the wonderful weekend secret that a few million of us are in on. It will always be a special place no matter what its called. Vive le Dingle!
- Excuse me, but I’m American and I’m not a “till fumbler” who is “confused by Gaelic signage”. What’s your problem with me being in your country?
Ok Will I’ll bite.
First of all I have no problem what so ever with you being in my country, or any Americans for that matter, except maybe the ones that stop over in Shannon on their way to spread freedom around the world. You say you’re confused by our Gaelic signage; well I got a news flash for ya, not all countries are English-Speaking!!! You might have considered that fact before you left the good ole US of A.
Maybe you could start a campaign to get all Gaelic signage changed to English so you wont be so confused travelling around our fair Isle, I mean you are American after all, it’s the least we could do. I wonder have all the signs in Baghdad been changed to English yet!
- You guys need teachers, and I answered the call. I am taking a course in Gaelic, and I try to get along as best I can in Ireland while remaining as inoffensive as possible.
You keep doing those 2 things and you’ll do just fine.
-It sounds to me like you’re just a bigot who can’t get over some – what, economic? – jealousy.
Yes that’s it, economic jealousy! Look Will, everything doesn’t have a dollar sign attached to it. Some things are more important than that, like culture, history, language etc. Selling our language down the fu**ing drain so some Yank wont be confused on his way to see a dolphin just doesn’t sit well with me. I’m not alone in this I might add and if it makes me a bigot, then a bigot am I.
!!!Fungie do Uachtarán Údarás!!!
Hello “admin”,
I think you misunderstood Will. He said that he is NOT “confused by Gaelic signage”.
I too am an American who is married to a lovely woman from Dublin or should I say Baile Átha Cliath.
We have travelled through Kerry and even stayed a few days at the An Capall Dubh B&B. I managed to find my way there just fine.
I don’t see any need to even have this vote as, even though I may not speak Gaeilge, I can certainly recognize a name in any language on a map as long as I know what I’m looking for.
I have no idea what the “economic jealousy” comment was about but we love Chiarraí and An Daingean.
Hey Micheal,
Right I see what you mean, my bad. I just got a little hot under the collar when he called me a bigot. I mean I was the one saying tourists or none Irish speaking people should be given more credit than thinking that after the name Dingle was dropped that they wouldn’t be able to find the place.
Anyway, thanks for the heads up on my misdirected rant!
“I’m going to put my head on the block and say there will be a handy majority in favour of keeping the Irish version only.”
Sadly I’d bet the farm that the name will be changed to Dingle Daingean Uí Chúis
Nope, i’m not bitter, or a language hater, but i just met someone else who is! i do hate having gaeilge rammed down my throat though.
from where i am sitting the only reason for it’s official status is a political one (and well you know it) and as soon as the commercial argument gets big enough that will go, just like articles 2 & 3!
as it happens it does adversely affect me. it is constantly used as a political brickbat preventing progress on real and meaningful issues that affect me daily. however, that would not matter to someone in their ivory tower kerry gaeltacht – as long as their elite status is preserved then be damned with progress.
fearbealfeirste
go away boy and let your hate rot ya.
Comhghairdeas! – Felicitations !
An Daingean ar ndóigh an tainm is cóir a bheith ar an áit, deireadh scéil.
To any reasonable and rational person, the place should be called An Daingean and just get on with.
All languages are beautiful and contribute to a diverse world get with the music, get with the harmony.
Paul H – my hunch is you’re a post-colonial syndrome language hating loser! just a hunch!
As for fearbealfeirste – seek professional psyhciatric help now. Could I also suggest you change your ‘blogname’ to English as it sends out all the wrong signals etc. wait 48 hrs and you should begin to experience some relief from your language hating complex. Stop spreading hate dude! (for non Irish language readers fearb[h]ealfeirste simply means belfastman)
Well done Mr. Admin
Nár laga Dia do lámh!
An Daingean abú!
YehAodha!!! Agus props san airde do “An Gaeltacht”.
if you would not like to here or see Gaelic or Irish then don’t listen or look, I never heard of anyone getting page 3 rammed into any orrifice.
Aren’t most native speakers ignorant muck farmers anyway???
Julien Sidebottom –
Spud gobbling rural muck farmer types….Correct! I’m eating a spud as I type this.
From Politics.ie
The plebecite has attracted a 89% turnout. With 1,089 of the the 1,222 of the electorate voting. It looks like a massive vote in favour possibly over 90%.
i rest my case – not one single counter argument – just a load of vented spleen. oh, and par for the course corrections of my poor gaeilge, and not a mention of my equally poor bearla.
and by the way, surely ye all know where ye live! are the signs not for visitors, who, incidentally are very highly unlikely to read gaeilge?
anyone care to address any of the points made or are we all rampant mad sinn-ers, deludedly signing from the same scripted hymnsheet with no minds of our own. sinn fein – what an oxymoron!
Fear Béal Feirste
Lol. You made no points,just attacked the language.
Were you ever out of the Six counties before a Fhir Béal Feirste, I doubt it, as if you had you’d have noticed that every country has the names of the places in that country in its language. The confusion is avoided due to the fact that the maps are also in the same language.
The same case applies here, An Daingean on the map An Daingean on the road sign. easy.
So they want the town called:
Dingle™/Daingean úi Chúis(sic)
let them, and remove Gaeltacht status while they’re at it.
But they should be warned that the reason for the tourists going there was the fact that it was a Gaeltacht town.
Fungi’s not gonna put bread on the table for much longer.
Whats with all this Sinn Féin talk, I’m a An Comhaontas Glas (Green) man myself nó Na Glasaigh mar a thugtar orthu chomh maith.
mise fhein –
you may well pretend to be a green voter but you dont fool me. violent, cut down all those who stand in your way (women, children, whoever), extremist nationalism rings throughout your whiney tone. if you care to read back you will note the few small points/arguments that i make and also the lack of any response other than the vitriolic hate fueled outbursts of extreme neo-ascist/nationalists.
and for the record, i have travelled far and wide and have theroefore developed a breadth of outlook you can only dream of – when your not dreaming of your 32 county socialist republic (or green blah blah)
oh and fair play and congratulations to the real people of dingle on the free expression of their opinion. im sure they had to fight hard against the green slimy tide to be heard.
- fearbealfeirste
You’re obviously pushing some other agenda and/or have some serious issues. Your hate filled comments only show you up as the self loathing language hater you are. Your points, where pertinent to the debate at hand, were addressed by several contributors in various posts but your view seems to be blocked by a large chip like object.
I agwee with the Uwster pehsohn, he weally hit the nailw on de head, anyone speaking gaywik is a provo or a peasent, full stop.
Howwah! Wew done pepow of Dingew!!!
obviously not a rational argument to be had here so i’ll not boost your popularity pole any further.
it is good to see, though, that the old traditional methods – shooting anyone with a different point of view – pertains, rather than engage in a constructive debate.
i know that i hate no-one and nothing and thats good enough or me. i also know that when i was blinded, in the exact same way that you are, that i too was angry inside but now that i have seen the proverbial light i do feel sorry for you, i hope one day that your particular veil is removed.
slán agus dia daoibh
@FearBealFeirste
Actually your English is poor, I don’t understand your point
oh my god – now your censoring me!
@FBF
Do you own a english only printing facility? Is that why you are upset?
Did you put all your resources into English stock, and you’re afraid that all this wish wosh about a handful of yolkels is really worth fretting about?
Please discuss
i would if i weren’t censored!
how bad is that – you should be ashamed – four legs good – two legs better!
- feareilebhealfeirste
I have not been censoring you, tempting as it may have been.
The AGH spam filter seems to be catching your comments. This means I have to go in and recover them individually and as I do have other work to do (apparently) it may take a while before your comments show up.
My apologies.
To any reasonable and rational person the town should be called Dingle because that’s what the people of Dingle want. You may not agree with them but tough shit.
Just as the city of (London)derry should be called Derry because that’s what the majority up there on the Foyle want.
Calling the population of Dingle ” till fumblers ” because you disagree with them shows a lack of respect for other people’s views. Perhaps you would feel more at home up here north of the border, among our bigots of all persuasions………
Just catching up with the blog in case any progress had been made and alas all I see is the monotonous, immature and blueshirt(fascist) ideology being delivered by Fearbealfeirste (read sadb[h]ealfeirste) who at one point on the debate re. An Daingean etc. says of another contributor here and speaker of Irish: “…violent,[who] cut down all those who stand in your way (women, children, whoever), extremist nationalism rings throughout your whiney tone.”….where are you at fool – if you have some agenda or burning desire to settle some score etc. etc. Christ man no one gives a continental hoot what happened to you or why you hate so much what others in their hundreds of thousands consider of value – An Ghaeilge, An Daingean etc..
Your ‘logic/rhetoric’ (though difficult to follow as others have brought to your attention already [I'm sure there are EFL classes available in Belfast - check it out]) has you repeatedly trying to steer the An Daingean and the broader language debate in the direction of your choice invariably away from the point – vers la heine.
Your brand of poison/politics is in fact not relevant here and of little or no interest to most reading on this subject and makes little if any positive or constructive contribution.
Don’t feel paranoid now but you talk of censoring and being censored by Mr. Admin etc. try censoring yourself a little, it can’t do any harm!
You’re probably jumping up and down with with rage now and this is might not in itself be a bad thing – consider using that energy to help you take that big leap – if you hate the Irish (or any other) language so much put it aside, move on, let it go and let those who enjoy it and all other languages do just that, enjoy!!!
Bon courage!
ok – im a blueshirt, i admit it (but i thought you were the nationalistic fascist? i’m not sure how that got turned around?) and i won’t run down your poor wee language anymore, because it obviously hurts you all deeply – so much so that you cannot help but sling personal insults and abuse.
i’m sorry that i ever added a comment, but only because i gave you the opportunity to gang up in that desperately defensive way that you used to do at school in order to prevent anyone from progressing and thus leaving you behind in your ignorance. colective bullying – i wish i could remember the psycholgical term for it but it is a well known and researched behaviour.
seething or jumping up and down i am not – the suggestion that such an issue or the disagreement of others to ones point of view might evoke such emotions simply shows your level of emotional intelligence – i am amused slightly but only slightly because it bores me a bit interacting with such one dimensional characters (i dont mean everyone by the way – but it should be clear what/who i mean to the casual observer).
i had hoped to provoke someone into engaging in a pseudo-semi-intellectual (boredom-killing while i pass an hour here and there) exchange – perhaps even maybe add a bit of humour – but the reaction was breathtaking – i really did think that only northern nationalist/fascist/marxist/leninist types would react in such a fashion but obviously not (i’m provoking again – sorry, i can’t help it).
for the record – i do love my country/language/culture/people – but they aren’t dead and they need no protecting. they haven’t stopped progressing and they have changed, dramatically, over time, and will continue to do so. people who can’t see that and who continually try to stop it, in freeze frame, so they can study it and claim to own it are actually killing it.
it is possible that the language may survive, even grow stronger again, but only in its native environment and naturally. outsiders (like me) who seek (sought) to spread it, artificially, into areas where it doesn’t belong only do it a dis-service and will eventually trigger it’s complete demise. (have you ever heard a sinner speak as gaeilge – it is a crime in itself).
anyway, react as you see fit – it won’t hurt or offend me and i promise not to jump up and down – i might laugh though, maybe even out loud.
oh and by the way – my reference to being censored was a result of my comments now having to go via the admin – all of a sudden? – nothing to do with paranoia – i got over that in my teens.
i notice (from the timestamps) that this only happened to my later posts after it became clear that the admin didn’t like my point of view but maybe in fact i am being paranoid. but then why even innocuous one line comments are being picked up by spam filter when they weren’t earlier (a non-deterministic spam filter, hmmmmm, you should present your spam filter code for scientific study)
Thank feck my parents escaped from Ireland all those years ago when it was run by a half-Cuban Yank whose grandson now claims to be Lord Protector of the Irish language!
What are you lot going to do when you catch up with the rest of the world and have to make your mind up about postcodes! Dingle bloody dangle – who cares? – bollocks to it all!